This past week I was discussing nihilism with a class and some students argued that if we came from nothing (i.e. God didn't put us here) and we're going to nothing (i.e. annihilation) then we would have no purpose for life. Then another student argued that if this life was all there is it would follow that this life was more meaningful. You only go around once so make the most of it!
I suggested that both were right in their own ways. If atheistic Darwinism were true life wouldn't have ultimate meaning, because not only are we going to nothing but everyone and everything is going to nothing. It won't matter what we did or what we were because all will be forgotten in that utter extinction.
So if this life is all there is, then we could find subjective meaning for now in getting our way. Dominating others with our strong will and clever cunning would make the most sense. Time is limited so the need to live for your own immediate enjoyment would be felt most acutely. Sacrificing for others now might lead to a greater benefit for yourself later if you made them feel indebted to you, but there would be no reason to help those who could never help you back. Aiding strangers would be counterproductive. Enlightened self-interest is still selfish and would only lead to selective serving of others.
So immediate meaning in power plays yes, but ultimate meaning in the end no.
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I'm gonna have to post this in chunks because of the word limit...
Andrew Ramshaw
This is actually a pretty sticky issue -- not so much because it's sticky for me, per se, but when it comes to addressing it with others, because there is so much weight to it all, and so many things to consider. The best way I can address this is with a story (and maybe more), because I've come to understand they are the best ways illustrate certain things.
Not too long ago I had the opportunity to speak with someone I'd been wanting to for a pretty long time. It was about two weeks ago on the Friday where we had the huge snowstorm down on Main Street in Saint Charles. The reason I wanted to was because he had been pacing outside Main Street's main coffee shop ever since I had relocated there to make it my regular place (partially by choice, partially because of the bat shit crazies and craziness I've had to deal with most of my life), and I wanted to know what had happened to cause him to do such a thing. I had my inklings as to why and who did what, because it seemed to be a manufactured parody of instances from my own life, but I didn't want to assume too much, so I kept mostly to myself while other more insidious people let certain things slide through their teeth (like they have over the past two years), allowing me to gradually piece together bits and pieces of the story. I had tried to introduce myself a few times, but he was largely dismissive, and I wasn't too sure if he'd be that way this time, too. I didn't let that stop me, though, because if there's anything I've become more callous to as time has gone on, it's other people and their opinions, because despite their criticisms and mockery, my choices haven't been the worst, and God-knows the harassers and stalkers of my life -- including MKC and KLM -- know they're garbage for having done so (and with MKC the mark is that much more highlighted because of his "Christian" convictions).
I was sitting at the bar across the street from Picasso's. Most of the street had been shut down because of the weather, but I lucked out with Llywelyn's being open and treated myself to a Vodka Club (though considering some of the jackass remarks from certain employees there - like Lauren - I sometimes want to tell them to hold the vodka and just hand me a club). So, as I'm sitting there, Sean -- "Pacing Sean" -- walks in, I welcome him, and offer to buy him a drink. He dismisses me somewhat and says he'd rather have a bite to eat at another bar down the way. Thinking this to be my only opportunity to really talk with the guy, I say I want to grab a bite to eat as well, so I pay my bill knowing quite well that certain folks there are crap, and leave to catch up.
Not being too bothered by the cold because I'd been working in it all day, I make my way towards the north end, and head into the Pacer's bar of choice. I get a couple drinks (I prefer the hard liquors), while he grabs some beers, and we get to talking about things -- about why he paces and seemed so angry at that coffee shop. He said it was because his ex worked there. I knew who the ex was (from this point I'll refer to her as "Lady D"), and was somewhat suspicious of her side of the story when it came to these things -- mainly because of how she and her friends chose to respond to the situation (because the way they responded seemed to resemble the jackasses I dealt with over in Chesterfield like KLM and MKC as well as some workers and other folks). The story he tells me (and I have less reason to disbelieve him if these stories are true because of his attitude) is that they were in a relationship for 5 years or so, and another guy ended up sleeping with her. I just sit there pretty much and listen, because in a situation like that, that's all you can do, but I'm glad I did, because even though others may see his reaction as over the top, I understand him. He asked if I could "do" something for him to the people that caused him so much grief, but I said I cannot do anything for you - and I do side with you - and I am going to be much nicer to you than others have been with me.
From there we move onto the topic of the government and those in power doing whatever it is they want to do, and how that sort of situation is just an absolute shit hole even if it's just slightly true. I have a tendency in these situations to refer back to "The Watchmen", a graphic novel that illustrates this dilemma fairly well. It's a story about vigilante justice and focuses on a group called "The Watchmen", the "Justice League" of this book. The group is comprised of quite a few of these characters with the only ones that really matter for me being Rorschach, Ozymandias, and Dr. Manhattan. Dr. Manhattan is for all intents and purposes a god; he is practically omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. And with these god-like people and these vigilantes roaming about the streets there comes a disturbing question: Who watches The Watchmen? When you have certain people with powers (or in power) who know there is nothing you can do to stop them, what do you do? What can you do? Knowing that there is no real consequence for their actions other than possibly a little bit of guilt that can be persuaded (and/or deluded) away, and all we end up as in the end is dust and ashes, it's not too hard to see how none of them would even care that you had a complaint.
There are plenty of us who dismiss other people from our lives because we do not care to deal with them or be bothered by them,and if anything were to happen to them we wouldn't give a single s*** about them, so how are those in power any different? We have this tendency when it comes to the phrase "Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die" to interpret it as simply a Christian versus non-Christian contrast of the spiritual condition, assuming that the non-Christian view is somehow only negative -- but it is actually much more than that, because eating, drinking, and being merry are all enjoyable whether you believe or not. The thing is that if you don't believe, you end up having people behaving and acting in ways you'd rather them not. What the non-Christian does not understand is that in freeing people to think in whatever way they want, he is freeing them to think in whatever way that they want, regardless of whatever anyone else thinks about it. That is where the real negative shows its face, because it all goes back to a conversation between Socrates and the sophists: suppose you had all the power, what would you do? Those in power simply do what they want to, just like everyone else.
Having dealt with different forms of abuse from various persons, losing friends and family because of the manipulations of unbelievers and believers alike, and losing family and friends because of their being underhanded and s****y themselves, my life is a perfect example of someone having had to deal with practical atheism, and it has been hard, because it is difficult dealing with that much manipulative evil simply because people want to hold to their own stupid views, control other people's lives, and not admit to the fact that they're garbage simply because they "don't want to feel bad". That mental illness called sin is very real regardless of whether you believe it or not, and I have been interning in an asylum with some of the strangest and most insane patients I have ever come across, with some of them insane enough to think themselves either helpers or even doctors themselves.
So, when it comes to that man I talked to at both bars on that Friday evening, don't be too surprised that nobody gives a s*** about your feeling the way you do, but understand that I do, and I hope none of these jackass weirdos misapply any of what I say or how I understand the situation. In Genesis, the conversation between the serpent and Eve goes like this:
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You1 shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
...and in Romans 9, Paul says this:
"But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?"
Now, if the Fall of Man was due to their wanting to be like God, is it really so far-fetched to think that when it comes to Man's wanting to be like God they would end up saying such a thing as Paul to others or even to God Himself? Who are you, O fellow man, to answer back to god? Of course not. The role of God was a role not meant for Man to play, and it really isn't that surprising that the world is as s****y as it is considering that he tries so hard to do something he was never meant to. These people that do so, because I have come across many who are like this, are perfect examples of how that mentality -- the naive kind where this life being "all that you have" is enough to make this life worth it -- are like the name-it-and-claim-it Christians or people who believe in their ability to control the world with their thoughts or words: people who believe it simply because they haven't dealt with reality for that long if at all.
Andrew Ramshaw
I'm going to add something here, too, because those who read this may have noticed this themselves: that what I have said is very much along the same lines as what you said, but just in a different way -- and they are not wrong. I am just of the opinion that how you say something matters just as much as what you've said.
My favorite author is G.K. Chesterton and for good reason -- in a lot of ways I think like him, and he comes across as a more refined version of what I would like for myself to be. I was having a conversation with someone regarding this topic awhile ago and they seemed to be taken aback by this remark, as though I simply imitate like a damn monkey, when in reality it's not that at all. How he thinks is different, but it's a sort of difference that makes sense. I think like that, but to everyone else it doesn't always make sense, and it is hard to explain it unless you have the ability to grasp it as it is, which sometimes requires you to let this stuff mull in your mind for while until the connections are understood.
All these jackasses -- with many of them showing up at and working at my jobs and elsewhere -- are harassers and manipulators. I am somewhat Calvinist because I believe whole-heartedly that you cannot persuade someone to believe whose will was not made to; only God can cause living water to flow out of a heart of stone. I cannot keep people from saying I'm gay, insane, or whatever, which is why I think it pathetic that people think that "you do you" is a legitimate saying (as if that changes anyone else besides yourself and is anything more than simply a stupid platitude). All this goes to show is how pathetic these people are, that they think perception is all there is, when in reality there are plenty of perceptions that are a damn joke, and plenty of people who would prefer to delude themselves than except reality (like having some jackasses think they are someone else, or that they married you).
I despise MKC and KLM and all the others that have chosen to go the routes they have, because all they do is make excuses for their being the way they are.
*prefer to delude themselves than accept reality
Sorry for the typo XD ...
GKC is the man! You should read or listen to (https://librivox.org/the-ball-and-the-cross-by-g-k-chesterton/) The Ball and the Cross if you haven't yet. It's some of the truest fiction and good story telling you'll ever read. Sounds like you've been hurt by some people. Give those wounds to God and their meaning may be revealed in time. Thanks for reaching out to that guy and treating him so well. Few people I know would have the courage and persistence to do that. Blessings, Andrew
Will do, Doc. Have always wanted to read that book, but just haven't had it at the forefront of my mind (at least for long).
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